Novag Citrine Review

TOP del.icio.us

The Novag Citrine is a stylish wooden effect auto sensory chess computer with hand carved wooden pieces, featuring a strong chess engine with a strength of around 2040 Elo. Optional PC connectivity allows for play against UCI engines.

Novag Citrine Board
Novag Citrine Board
Board Overview
The Novag Citrine Box
Novag Citrine (close-up)

For a dedicated chess computer, it’s beautiful - none of that cheap looking plastic that lets down so many other chess computers. The wooden pieces, although nice enough, are a little small for the board and are nothing special.

The auto sensory board works well and allows fairly natural play through the use of magnetic pieces operating reed switches under each square which removes the need to press down to register your move as is common with other computers. 4 LEDs surrounding each square and a 6 digit detachable LCD screen provide a simple but effective system for feedback and menu operation.

The Citrine engine is strong (Novag claim 2330 USCF, but in reality is closer to 2140 USCF) and will provide a tough challenge for even strong club players. For the few who are stronger than this (roughly the top 2% of chess players), there is the option of connecting to a PC via the serial (RS232) cable and with an interface like Arena you can play against UCI or Winboard Engines.

Detach the LCD screen and power adaptor and you have a very reasonable stand-alone chess set offering an excellent compromise for player vs player if a luxury wooden chess set is beyond your budget or you simply don’t have space.

History

Released in 2006, the Novag Citrine is an evolution of the Novag Universal Chess Board (UCB) which acted as an interface for separate engine units (like the Sapphire, Diamond or Super VIP), or to a PC.

Novag then developed the UCB with a new self-contained chess engine and this became the Citrine. Early versions of the Citrine still had the UCB branding, and were plagued with a few bugs and poor design, but now the 3rd generation models are much better made and no longer have the bugs or UCB branding.

Technical / Features

Program Size : 56K Byte ROM
RAM : 3K Byte RAM
System Clock Speed : 20MHz
RISC Processor : H8/300H
Power Supply : 50mA max
Power Consumption : 450mW max
Adaptor : 9V DC
Opening Book : Approx 24,000 ply
Playing levels : 64
Tack back up : 112 ply
Solves Mate up to : Mate in 8
Depth Search : 18 ply
Wooden Board : 370 x 370 x 35 mm

The Board

Novag Citrine close-up
Novag Citrine close-up
Novag Citrine close-up

Novag have provided a generous 37 cm x 37 cm of laminated wooden board to do battle on, with a square size of 3.7 cm (1.5 in). Standing at a height of 3.5 cm to contain the electronics, the board is raised a little higher than other boards, but doesn’t take much getting used to. It’s not in the same league in terms of quality as a luxury solid wood board, but as far as dedicated chess computers go it’s pretty impressive.

With virtually all chess computers manufactured out of some sort of plastic there isn’t much to compare the Citrine to in terms of appearance. The more expensive auto-sensory wooden DGT board looks fantastic but only operates as an interface for PC programs – there is no internal chess engine. The Excalibur has auto-sensor input, but has a rather cheap looking plastic finish and no PC connectivity.

Pieces

The pieces which come with the board are probably the most disappointing aspect of this computer. They are dwarfed by the size of the squares and the pawns in particular look rather puny. The Rook and Bishop look malnourished, only the King and Queen make any impression. The finish lacks detail and no weighting makes the pieces feel very light. They are much better suited to my £10 chess/snakes and ladders wooden board from Argos. However the felt bases feel very nice!

Novag Citrine Pieces
Novag Citrine pieces
Novag Citrine Knight and Rook
Novag Citrine Knights

Fortunately, ChessBaron have provided a solution to this shortcoming by creating a set especially for the Citrine. You can purchase them with the board, or separately if you wish. I wasn’t sure whether it was worth the extra money, but they give you the option to return them if you aren’t happy with them. I needn’t have worried! The pieces are thousand times better, they are the right size for the squares and the triple weighting feels wonderful. They give the Novag Citrine an air of class that it deserves. The only drawback to the pieces is that the heavier weight makes it easier to mark the board if they are dropped.

ChessBaron Citrine Enhanced
ChessBaron pieces
Novag vs ChessBaron

Novag Citrine King – Diameter : 1.0 in ; Height : 2.5 in ; Weight : 10 g
ChessBaron Citrine King – Diameter : 1.25 in ; Height : 3.0 in ; Weight : 24 g

Move Input

Movement of the pieces is as simple as picking up a piece and placing it down, just as you would on a real board. Well, it’s not quite that simple but not far off. Once you understand how the board works you will realise there are certain techniques that have to be learnt (or avoided) to give faultless operation.

There are magnetically operated reed switches under each square and as a piece (with a magnetic base) is placed on a square the reed switch is closed and the board recognises there is a piece on the square. Lift the piece off the square, the magnetic field is removed and the reed switch opens – the board recognises the piece has been removed. Although the pieces are magnetic, there is no sense of ‘sticking’ like with magnetic travel sets (because the reed switches are so small) and the pieces will slide off if the board is shaken or tilted – but on the other hand they do stick quite nicely to radiators!

The method of operation gives rise to some potential problems. If you are a ‘pusher’ – that is you like to slide your pieces to the destination square, then you will have problems. This should be obvious if you consider the common opening move 1. e4. By pushing the pawn off e2, it opens the e2 switch, as it passes over e3 it closes the switch and opens again as it moves off e3 and onto e4, closing the e4 switch. The computer sees the piece leave e2 and arrive on e3 (completing the move)- which it registers as the move e2-e3. It is now black to move and moving the pawn from e3 to e4 is illegal since it’s no longer white’s turn.

In short, the piece must be picked up cleanly and placed on the destination square without activating any intervening squares.

It also has to be realised that the reed switches don’t open until the piece is lifted about ¼ – ½ inch above the square, so ‘hovering’ low over the squares causes problems and also the common capture technique of ‘kicking’ one piece out of the way with the capturing piece doesn’t work. The reason for this is that the computer has a specific sequence that has to be followed when capturing: the captor must leave the original square first, the captured piece then has to leave its square and then the captor must be placed on the vacated square. If you ‘swoop’ in with the captor to ‘kick’ out the other piece, then the reed switch is never opened between removing the captured piece and placing the piece on the vacated square – the computer is none the wiser and doesn’t realise that anything has moved as the switch hasn’t changed state at any point.

Using reed switches creates some limitations in how freely the pieces can be moved, and to some extent you are forced into a certain style of moving the pieces. Whether this suits you and how quickly you adapt to it will depend largely on what your style of moving the pieces is and how ingrained your style is should you need to modify it – I wouldn’t recommend playing much Blitz until the necessary adaptation has occurred!

The Engine

The brains behinds the Citrine engine is a H8/300H-tiny RISC processor (more specifically H8/3687) running at 20MHz – but as my knowledge of processors and electronics is rather limited I can’t tell you much about the processor – have a look at the manufacturer’s page instead if you are interested!

Link: Renesas H8/3867

Novag advertise the Citrine with an estimated rating of 2330 USCF (about 2230 Elo), but Selective Search place it 12th in their list of dedicated computers with a rating of 2032 Elo. Most manufacturers will overstate the true strength, or estimate it on impractical parameters such as infinite thinking time.

There are 64 playing levels to choose from, but rather than being a sequential progression in strength from 1 to 64, there are 8 categories – though the mate-in levels are not really suitable for playing against. There are choices between tournament type games, quickplay games, fixed depth, fixed time and some beginner levels. There is also an ‘easy’ option which can be applied to any level which turns off pondering (thinking on the opponent’s time) and a ‘random’ feature which changes the level of randomness in choosing between similarly good moves.

The Citrine is supported by an opening book of 24,000 half moves, which gives a huge range of opening potential. The only disappointment is that there are no configuration options to go with it like ‘tournament’ to strengthen it up or ‘random’ to give it a bit more variability.

I thought there might have been a bit more flexibility on the levels, but as I’m down the lower end of the levels there is plenty to keep me occupied.

Usability

The usability of the Novag Citrine is actually very good once you get used to it – doesn’t take long! A new game is started by simply placing all the pieces on their ‘home’ squares. The moves are displayed using LEDs (1 on each corner of the origin / destination square) with optional sound alerts and makes for very easy move recognition and input.

The LEDs

The menu system is activated via the menu button on the side which turns the board into a big 64 button console (there is a spare function activation piece for this purpose). The menu options flash round in the LCD display, though it’s much easier to refer to the manual – they really should have supplied a quick reference sheet so I’ll make my own at some point.

The Function Activation Piece

The board is powered by a 9V DC adaptor and there is no alternative battery option – which means to use the board you have to be permanently plugged into the wall and the memory is lost once it is unplugged.

LCD screen

The game information is displayed through a small plastic box with a six-digit LCD display. The main display shows information such as the move input, time taken/remaining, computer’s reply, computer’s evaluation, computer’s search depth, variations left to compute, game result and menu selection/options. There are other icons on the display to show side to move, captures, en passant and piece position verification.

As most of my time is spent concentrating on the board during the computer’s move I don’t look at the LCD all that often so it’s not all that useful to me, but it is useful when a move doesn’t register properly or you want to take back a series of moves. Display of the engine feedback is useful in analysis mode, but then I’d just use Fritz instead to analyse a game. In games with a time control, your remaining time is shown during your move, but during the computer’s move it rotates through a whole series of displays so the time remaining for the computer is easy to miss.

LCD Display
LCD Display

PC connection

Who cares if there is a lack of levels to play against when you can connect up your Novag Citrine to a PC and play directly against any UCI or Winboard engine you like?! With a bit of technical know-how you can turn your Citrine from a 2000 Elo grandmaster wannabe into a 3000 Elo world beating monster!!

I know that the majority of my games will be spent hooked up to a computer playing against various UCI engines which have been weakened to an appropriate strength (to give me a chance!) and at a time control of my choosing.

The board is supplied with a RS232 (serial) connector which will connect to the COM port on your PC – however, not many computers (laptops in particular) are fitted with these ports nowadays due to the superiority of USB ports. Not to worry though, for a just few pounds it is easy to pick up a USB-to-Serial converter which allows you to use a USB port instead.

Using a software interface such as Arena, the incorporated Citrine driver will allow the board to control move input. It will also receive and display moves from the computer, though moves with captures don’t quite display properly using the LEDs and it may be necessary to refer to the computer screen if move announcement isn’t turned on. None of the game information is displayed in the LCD either, but doesn’t need to be attached in any case.

Interface
Connections

Summary

The experience of playing against a computer by physically moving wooden pieces on a wooden board is infinitely better than trying to play using a computer screen, and further enhanced by the pieces from ChessBaron. The auto-sensory mechanism makes play feel almost natural and an innovative menu system and detachable LCD means the board isn’t cluttered with buttons and displays.

The board is very usable though perhaps the manual could use a little expansion to make things a bit clearer. The internal engine is not as strong as other chess computers and the level selection is a little limited, but to me that doesn’t matter because with the PC connection it becomes the Novag Citrine Unleashed!

Pros: Auto-sensor, PC connectivity, LEDs, mains powered
Cons: Chess piece quality, limited levels, no USB connection (serial only), no battery option

If you are looking to buy a new chess computer I’d urge you to go with an auto-sensor. Having owned a press-sensor for many years, I can tell you that being able to move the pieces naturally improves the experience no end – it allows you to completely immerse yourself in the game of chess rather than having to think about how to input the moves all the time. For this reason alone the Novag Citrine does not disappoint.

39 comments to “Novag Citrine Review”

  1. Comment by Christina:

    Dave – very nice article about the Citrine. The product is only really worthwhile in my opinion with the enhanced pieces from ChessBaron. I bought my Citrine from another store but then later bought the pieces from ChessBaron, it makes a world of difference. I love the detail you’ve gone into with this review – nice to have a review that doesn’t have an agenda. Regards, Christina

  2. Comment by Ronnie:

    Thanks for the review. It made me decide to go with the Citrine and Chessbaron pieces combo. In the future, I hope to see mod projects on this board like internal battery module and WiFi connection for a standalone >3000 Elo set-up! :)

  3. Comment by Sam Vorhauer:

    I bought a Novag Citrine recently and I had lots of problems with getting and downloading graphics for it. Plus I did have to buy a compatible USB cable for it at 34 dollars. I just am a bit dissapointed that, given the price of this machine, I did not get any software graphics with it. I got the machine because of its feature connection to a PC and the instructions that came with the machine were of no help. I expected better quality and service. Sam V.

    [Not sure what you mean by downloading graphics for it, but I managed to get a Serial-to-USB converter for about £6 (about 12 US dollars) and it works just fine. Novag haven't provided a PC user interface or any instructions (I knew all this before I purchased the Citrine) but the Arena GUI works pretty well and at some point I intend to write some guidance on PC connectivity - Dave]

  4. Comment by Ryan:

    Is the Citrine compatible as an interface with any other program besides Arena? I’ve been doing a lot of research, but I cannot find any other UCI that will connect to the Novag Citrine.

    There is also linux driver for the Citrine, but I think Arena is the only interface to have it integrated as far as I know – Dave

  5. Comment by Shaun:

    Excellent and detailed review, many thanks! Is it a worthy opponent and have you had any noteworthy games on which you could comment?

  6. Comment by Dave:

    I’ve not recorded many games against the Citrine, but there is an interesting discussion here…

    http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=387&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

    …which comments on some of the games it has played.

  7. Comment by Drew:

    I’ve been looking to purchase an autosensory board for a while now and Novag has always been amongst my first options. It sounds like the Citrine is almost what I am looking for. The only two things I don’t like are the fact that in 2008 this board was designed with a serial connection instead of the standardized USB connection. This is not necessarily a deal breaker but it is bewildering and annoying. The second is the lack of a battery option, not only to power the board in case I want to use it portably but also to save games so I can later attach the Citrine to a computer to download them. If I want to save games for later review I will either have to always keep a laptop nearby or play with the Citrine near a desktop computer. Very inconvenient. I hope Novag addresses this in future models.

  8. Comment by Stephen:

    Great review, very helpful. I will likely purchase. Point on the chess peices is really valuable and if I do buy from ChessBarron I will be sure to order your special peices.

  9. Comment by Dan Aunspach:

    This was an excellent review that answered many of my questions. Nowhere else have I been able to find such a thorough explanation of the Citrine. Thanks for helping me make an informed purchasing decision.

  10. Comment by LH:

    Thanks for an excellent review. I’ve been drooling over this board for a while now and yours is the best in depth review I’ve come across.

    I’m with Drew on the potential downsides though. That they used serial instead of USB just makes me wonder if they’re using old kit in a new board rather than developing more up to date hardware. There’s really no excuse for insisting on serial any more!

    Secondly, having to keep it plugged into the mains is ridiculous. It stops the board from being truly portable and the thought of leaving it plugged in overnight with a game part way through doesn’t appeal to me.

    One question I’d like to know the answer to is: If you’re in the middle of a game using Arena. Can you stop and come back to it later? As in the above example of leaving it overnight? Otherwise, do you have to leave the board plugged in and the PC running with Arena loaded? I’m not clear on this.

    Thanks again for a great review.

    LH

  11. Comment by Ritch Kerns:

    This is a FANTASTIC review. I just purchased the Citrine, and so far so good. I really don’t have a problem with the pieces, but upgrading would be a nice idea for the future. I’m not sure where in the US I could find these pieces, though. On another note, I don’t like the menu system, and find it confusing, at least initially, and I wish the LCD was backlit, or at least had a triangular shape so it would face the player directly. All fixable stuff, I guess.

    Now, the PC connection is confusing. How does the USB connect to the LCD? The LCD out has what is essentially a phone jack-type of thing, not a serial port. I couldn’t find anything online that fit this description, so any suggestions would be much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Ritch

  12. Comment by Chuck:

    Hello and great review, it helped me make my decision to purchase a Citrine. I’m loving it so far, but I have noticed that every so often when it’s my move, it won’t register my move at all and the red led lights don’t light. If I press menu and press it again it seems to reset and then I can make my move just fine. Have you experienced anything like this? Also was wondering if you can tell how old the make is by the serial number. I want to be sure I have one of the newer versions.

    Thanks,

    Chuck

  13. Comment by Macarel:

    Thanks for the review, I recently bought one and coming back to your blog time after time I decided on buying those beautiful enhanced pieces (i try to convince myself I do it for the extra queen ;) )

    Thanks a lot,

    Macarel

    PS: If you ever launch a petition asking citrine support for the main chess programs, you have my vote!

  14. Comment by Rob:

    Can you comment on the operation of the menu button? I have to push it HARD (really hard) to make it work. For some time after receiving the unit, I thought the button was faulty because I couldn’t make it work. Contacted my dealer who said this was normal.

    Thanks, if you can help.

  15. Comment by Dave:

    The menu button doesn’t need to be pushed hard, it is lightly sprung and needs to be pushed all the way in to operate, but there is little resistance when pushing it. It does sound like your button is faulty. The fact that it is working (although you have to push it hard) suggests that the contacts aren’t aligned properly or the spring has gone and it is probably quite easy to fix if you have the courage open the board up.

  16. Comment by Rob:

    Thanks for your reply Dave. The spring is very light, it’s just that nothing happens unless I push it in fully and hard once it’s depressed all the way.

  17. Comment by John:

    Nice review thanks. I recently purchased the Citrine and I find the pieces to be adequate but the position of the LCD display (due to the short cable supplied) is annoying as it is hard to see. I made up a 1 metre extension cable and now have the LCD positioned in front of the board which is much more convenient.

    It works well with Arena overall although the LEDs sometimes don’t light correctly (particularly when a piece is being captured) so you sometimes have to check what move is intended on the Arena display.

    My menu button also requires a fairly hard push but this seems to be improving with use. I’ve recently started to use the set-up position mode which was confusing at first but this actually works very well once you have had some practice.

    Overall a nice computer, even if a little on the expensive side for playing strength and piece quality. I don’t find the piece movement requirements cause any problems and if used sensibly, the board sensing is very reliable. The ChessBaron pieces seem expensive to me, so I might purchase a non magnetic set of wooden pieces and add the magnets myself (once I have worked out the magnetic strength / polarity required). I might also investigate producing a rechargeable battery pack for it (inside the unit if there is room). Luckily I know a talented electrical engineer who will be able to advise on circuit requirements if I decide to go ahead

    Not much in life is perfect, but this is a well made machine. It can’t compete with chess engines in terms of coimputing power but if you want to play ‘real’ chess against a machine, the Citrine does the job.

  18. Comment by George Abate:

    How would a buyer know that the unit purchased,
    is the 3rd generation citrine machine?
    Please reply. God Bless. George

  19. Comment by Piet:

    I would like to know that to. How can I tell which edition of the Citrine I have?

  20. Comment by Dave:

    Have a look underneath the LCD box – if it says 07W42 (Week 42 – 2007) or later, then it will be one of the latest generation models. Before that I have no idea!

  21. Comment by Michael Diosi:

    Hi,

    We have linked to your page on the Arena (Chess GUI page in the news section). Could you please give us some informations about the sizes of each piece in the Citrine chess set ? I mean hight, diammater (at base) weight (w/b if different) and also for the luxury set ? Thanks in advance

    Michael

  22. Comment by Michael Diosi:

    Hi,

    Just wanted to say I got the information about the Citrine pieces size/weight (original set/luxury set). Many thanks to Chris Tatham and Baron Turner respectivly.

    If anyone is intersted in data go to the Arena site (news ticker 171). By the way the original set seems very light …

    Michael

  23. Comment by David:

    Hello Citrine fans,

    I did a project with the Citrine that might be of interest to you. It is a little wooden chess table to fit the Citrine in.

    You can see pictures and read all about it at the following page:

    http://www.davitools.com/citrine/citrinetable.aspx

  24. Comment by Dave:

    That table is amazing! I’m truly impressed.

  25. Comment by Guy Fermen:

    Bonjour,
    Je viens d’acheter le Novag Citrine.
    Je le connecte avec mon PC et j’ai téléchargé Arena.
    Mais rien ne se passe. Quelqu’un pourrait-il m’expliquer la façon de faire.
    Merci
    GuyF

  26. Comment by Michael Diosi:

    Hi,

    Now even more enhanced Citrine chess sets available form ChessBaron as you can read in an interview at the Arena page (news section):

    http://www.playwitharena.com

    Michael

  27. Comment by Rich:

    First of all: that circular lump of wood on the corner of the board is distracting and puts me right off buying the Citrine. In this day and age you would of thought that someone (with at least half a brain) would of worked out a way to get rid of it, or at least merge it into the board. Second: I feel that the previous wooden chess computers like the Mephisto Senator, Magellan, Roma, were all MUCH better than the Citrine and yet Mephisto stopped making them (idiots) because any of those three models would be better than a Citrine and the same applies to the Mephisto ‘Atlanta’ and the even better Mephisto ‘London’ … but those two were not wooden board chess computers if I recall. But they were VERY good! It seems with the advent of chess software like Fritz and Rybka and Shredder that dedicated chess computers are no longer in vogue. I’m surprised that Saitek and Novag haven’t made a real go of improving their old boring stock of chess computers and tried to make a new line of chess computers ( made from wood of course – it’s the only sensible way to go when clearly plastic – although cheaper – is very much second in line to a lovely wood board and pieces.) It seems to me that Novag and Saitek lost the will to stand up and fight the software chess world and make new outstanding chess computers that many chess players would like to see. I’m a fan of dedicated chess computers as much as I am a fan of chess software but with todays market so poor and over hyped with dedicated chess computers that just don’t cut it by todays standards I’m put off buying a dedicated chess computer now. As far as I’m concerned, Saitek and Novag have conceded defeat to chess software and we (the chess playing public) will happily settle for Fritz and Rybka because the dedicated chess computer makers of the world have quit making excellent new machines – even with the huge advances in computer software that could actually see dedicated chess computers hold say 1000 classic games for example – Novag and Saitek you’re gutless quitters.

  28. Comment by Michael Diosi:

    The very first Mephistos were good. The “newer” ones had a plastic bottom. They are crap. Nevertheless there are some nice new projects like the DCS and Pheonix with wooden boards and strong programs. As Dave said already the ChessBaron set is excellent, I might try the Citrine enabled sets too or let them make me Citrine set which is possible now. These might get collectors items as they are also usable with the Mephistos, the original Mephisto sets (most of them) are not that nice, there are some exceptions (if you look on ebay you will find nice sets too).

  29. Comment by Michael Diosi:

    @Guy Fermen

    It is the baudrate, there is an error in Arena. You have to chose:
    57600 instead of 576000.

    and now for google translaion:
    Il s’agit de la baudrate, il ya une erreur dans l’Arena. Vous avez à choisir:
    57600 au lieu de 576.000.

    Michael

  30. Comment by Timo:

    Hello

    I have a important question;

    How you Citrine work, when you play SD-levels? When you time is out, did
    Citrine work like the manual claim?

    New Citrine models (generation 3, build in factory summer 2009) maybe a bug with SD-levels.

    Plese tell me, how you Citrine act when time is out and tell me (if you know) what generation you Citrine are and when it’s build.

  31. Comment by Dave:

    Never had a problem with SD mode as far as I know. It flashes up FLAG and allows you to continue if you want. I think it is 2nd generation model.

  32. Comment by Timo:

    Ok, you Citrine flashes FLAG in lcd-panel. Did the machine also make tree beep signal, when time is out in SD level? Both thing should be happen, if Citrine work well.

  33. Comment by Dave:

    Not sure about the beeps as I always run it with the sound off. I’ll try and check sometime, though someone else here might be able to tell you how their’s behaves.

  34. Comment by Timo:

    Could somebody confirm, did Citrine make (tree) beep signal, when you play SD levels and you time is out? Dave just confirm, that Citrine show FLAG in lcd-panel in same situation.

    And if you know, plese tell me what generation your Citrine are or when you buy it.

  35. Comment by bychamp:

    I dont know why Novag dont put inside citrine, the old program of Diablo? would be very expensive?

  36. Comment by Ed:

    Hi Dave – Great article! Just got mine and have been playing all day. I am only rated at 954 right now but can beat the Beginner Level 1 on Easy every time. Question – What is easier, Beginner Level or Novice Level? Instruction are not to clear on this. Also, do you have an idea of the rating level of the Beginner and Novice Levels? Looking forward to an article from you about hooking Citrine up to a PC!! Thanx for the reply – ED

  37. Comment by Dave:

    Novice level is weaker – 1 ply + captures, compared to 2 ply + captures for beginner. It is very difficult to assign a rating to the lower levels, but my guess would be in the region of 800 Elo, maybe? It uses an opening book so the opening is good, the middlegame is usually quite solid (no simply hanging pieces), but the endgame is very weak on weaker levels – problem is it’s not looking deep enough to see things like pawn promotion, opposition, whether the king can get back to defend etc…

  38. Comment by jhelles:

    Hello…

    My life,vist it http://xiangcai8.insanejournal.com/292.html ,Thanks….

  39. Comment by Eugenies:

    Hello…

    My life,vist it http://xiangdress.beeplog.com/blog.pl?blogid=215712 ,Thanks….

Leave a Reply